The vote that the Palestinians are going to force on either the General Assembly or the Security Council of the UN this coming week will have horrible consequences however it turns out. If there is a veto, expect Israel's enemies and adversaries such as Iran and Turkey to raise hell, and not just within the walls of the building on the East River. And, of course, if the vote goes through in the affirmative, Israel will immediately have to act in defiance of it in order to keep East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.
Pointy-heads are scrambling to find a face-saving way for all parties involved to climb back down from this ominous juncture, but the PA's insistence on taking its position of blackmail to the brink makes such a defusing unlikely.
In parts of Europe, polls show a majority of people support a Palestinian state. Of those polled in the UK, 59 percent said its government should vote in favor of Palestinian statehood at the UN meeting. France and German had even higher numbers, coming in at 69 percent and 71 percent, respectively.
ReplyDeleteRead more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/311588#ixzz1YJexGNgQ
Of course you will view this as another harbinger of the death of the West.
ReplyDeleteAnd we know that from Zechariah 12:3 that in the last days Jerusalem would be a "burdensome stone for all people." We know that in recent years Israel's wrath has fallen on Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, aid ship flotillas, etc. Then the Bible predicts that there will be a massive invasion by numerous countries of Israel. The Battle of Armageddon. I was there at one time. The Valley of Megiddo, and the tour guide said that that was where this great Battle of Armageddon would one day be fought.
ReplyDeleteJesus Christ also predicted this. "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." Luke 21:20. And the United States at this time may be completely wiped out, because a lot of people think the United States is the Babylon of Bible prophesies of Jeremiah chapters 50 and 51 and Revelation chapters 17 and 18. The good news is that Jesus Christ will return at this time to take over the earth that worldly people have made a mess of. Many Jews will be saved at this time, especially in Israel. "They will look on him whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son." See http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0030/0030_01.asp
Re: the European opnion polls: That's correct. I view it as a harbinger of the West's demise.
ReplyDeleteRe: the Biblical prophesies: I suppose that is what's going on, but it's still no excuse for not standing up for the right outcome there.
Prepare to envy the dead then, tough guy.
ReplyDeleteYep, adrift in the sea alone, but for our asses in their wringer. Agreed with Thomas Friedman here:
ReplyDelete"I’VE never been more worried about Israel’s future. The crumbling of key pillars of Israel’s security — the peace with Egypt, the stability of Syria and the friendship of Turkey and Jordan — coupled with the most diplomatically inept and strategically incompetent government in Israel’s history have put Israel in a very dangerous situation.
This has also left the U.S. government fed up with Israel’s leadership but a hostage to its ineptitude, because the powerful pro-Israel lobby in an election season can force the administration to defend Israel at the U.N., even when it knows Israel is pursuing policies not in its own interest or America’s.
As top diplomats from the United States and Europe push to avert a showdown that could crush already dim Mideast peace prospects you derisively dismiss them as "pointy heads." Rat tat tat, kablooie! Whoopee we're all gonna die because Israel can't clean up its own messes. The Prince of Peace predicted it, a fourth of the world's God wills it, well, what's a little pain to the beasts and children got to do with it. Two Thousand One Two, poof, out of time, hup two three four....
ReplyDeleteThis "ineptness" Friedman - and you - speak of? In what way is the current Israeli government inept. What "messes" has it made that it is not cleaning up?
ReplyDeletePuhlease, the subject fills libraries. I can provide a bibliography for you if you like. At the end of the day, well, you say hello and I say goodbye. Sounds as if pretty much every country has essentially said goodbye as well. You equate efforts at peacemaking with weakness. I equate it with wisdom, prudence & strength. Do you really want America's young women and men, nay our children, dying for a country that apparently won't deal with their international issues diplomatically? Well, at least you have the horrifying Christian prophesies on your side. Bring it on then, I will view it, as all wars, as Lao Tse so aptly put it, as a funeral, no cause for bombast and brouhaha, but there will be plenty of them flags wavin' and much more of that Support Our Troops blather.
ReplyDeleteThat's a fairly lengthy paragraph, but it doesn't answer my simple question of how the current Israeli administration has handled relations with the Palestinians or the US ineptly and made a mess.
ReplyDeleteLet's see if this question can elicit something more dorectly related to the question itself: With what entity is Israel supposed to "deal diplomatically"? The PA, which names public squares after suicide bombers, and sends the mother of four terrorists to lead the march to the West bank UN office, and whose emissary to the US says that any Palestinian state must be free of Jews (while his side's position is that Palestinians must have a "right of return" to Israel itself)? Or perhaps Hamas? Or would you have Jordan be the chief mediator - that Jordan whose king last week said Jerusalem must be the capital of a Palestinian state? Or perhaps Egypt, whose post-Mubarak military regime his renewing diplomatic relations with Iran and which can't seem to keep terrorist cells out of the Sinai or mobs from storming the Israeli embassy in Cairo? Or perhaps Turkey, whose PM Erdogan has sent warships to patrol eastern Mediterranean waters and which escorts Gaza "Supplies" flotillas (which never carry as much in the way of actual humanitarian assistance as Israel sends into Gaza daily)?
ReplyDeleteAnd that's a pretty lengthy paragraph from you as well, all detailing what you have read, filtered through your mind which has already been made up. Look, we're at the brink of war, so let's just go at it. That's what you want, isn't it? So, in glee or in gloom, let's just go at it. Israel lost three allies recently. That's our fault? Your American patriotism is also filtered through that Israeli lens. In fact, and you know this, most of what you cry about is wrong with America and Europe and their leaders is filtered through that lens too. So is all your grown-up v. children stuff. We said we would have their back, and we will, at least in the UN voting, so let's just let it all roll the way the Eye in the Sky let's the die fall.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very incomplete bibliography of the Arab-Israeli conflict.
ReplyDeleteGeneral History
Bregman, Ahron (2002). Israel's Wars: A History Since 1947. London: Routledge. ISBN 0-415-28716-2
Bregman, Ahron Elusive Peace: How the Holy Land Defeated America.
Bard, Mitchell. The Complete Idiot's Guide to Middle East Conflict. 2nd ed. (Alpha, 2002), ISBN 0-02-864410-7
Bickerton, Ian J. and Carla L. Klausner. A Concise History of the Arab–Israeli Conflict. 4th ed. (Prentice Hall, 2001), ISBN 0-13-090303-5
Cohn-Sherbok, Dan. The Palestine-Israeli Conflict: A Beginner's Guide (Oneworld Publications, 2003), ISBN 1-85168-332-1
Cejka, Marek. Israel and Palestine - The past, present and Direction of the Middle Eastern Conflict (Barrister and Principal, 2005), ISBN 978-80-87029-16-9
David, Ron. Arabs & Israel for Beginners (Writers and Readers Publishing, Inc. 1996), ISBN 0-86316-161-8
Dowty, Alan. Israel/Palestine (Polity, 2005), ISBN 0-7456-3202-5
Eran, Oded. "Arab-Israel Peacemaking." The Continuum Political Encyclopedia of the Middle East. Ed. Avraham Sela. New York: Continuum, 2002.
Fraser, T. G. The Arab–Israeli Conflict. 2nd ed. (Palgrave Macmillan, 2004), ISBN 1-4039-1338-2
Gelvin, James L. The Israel-Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War (Cambridge University Press, 2005), 0521618045
Harms, Gregory with Todd M. Ferry. The Palestine-Israel Conflict: A Basic Introduction (Pluto Press, 2005), ISBN 0-7453-2378-2
Hirst, David. The Gun and the Olive Branch. 3rd ed. (Nation Books, 2003), ISBN 1-56025-483-1
Hurewitz, J. C. The Struggle for Palestine (Shocken Books, 1976), [out of print]
Karsh, Efraim. Arafat's War: The Man and His Battle for Israeli Conquest. New York: Grove Press, 2003.
Khouri, Fred J. The Arab–Israeli Dilemma. 3rd ed. (Syracuse University Press, 1985), ISBN 0-8156-2340-2
Morris, Benny. Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist–Arab Conflict, 1881–2001 (Vintage Books, 2001), ISBN 0-679-74475-4
Morris, Benny. 1948: The History of the First Arab-Israeli War. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2008.
Mandel, Neville J. The Arabs and Zionism Before World War I (University of California Press, 1976), [out of print]
Ovendale,Ritchie. The Origin of the Arab-Israeli Wars, (Pearson Education, Edinburgh (1984), 2004 4th revised ed.
Pappe, Ilan A History of Modern Palestine: One Nation, Two Peoples: Second Edition (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2006)
Roraback, Amanda. Palestine in a Nutshell or Israel in a Nutshell (Enisen Publishing, 2004), ISBN 0-9702908-4-5
Safran, Nadav. Israel: The Embattled Ally (The Belknap Press, Harvard, 1978), [out of print]
Sela, Avraham. "Arab-Israeli Conflict." The Continuum Political Encyclopedia of the Middle East. Ed. Avraham Sela. New York: Continuum, 2002. pp. 58–121.
Shlaim, Avi. The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World (London: Penguin Books, 2000), ISBN 978-0-140-28870-4
Smith, Charles D. Palestine and the Arab–Israeli Conflict. 5th ed. (Bedford/St. Martin’s, 2004), ISBN 0-312-40408-5
Sykes, Christopher. Crossroads to Israel (Cleveland: The World Publishing Company, 1965), [out of print]
Tessler, Mark. A History of the Israeli–Palestinian Conflict (Indiana University Press, 1994), ISBN 0-253-20873-4
Thomas, Baylis. How Israel Was Won (Lexington Books, 1999), ISBN 0-7391-0064-5
Wasserstein, Bernard. Israelis and Palestinians (Yale University Press, 2003), ISBN 0-300-10172-4
A very incomplete bibliography of the Arab-Israeli Conflict continued...
ReplyDeleteAnalytical / Focused
Bard, Mitchell G. Will Israel Survive? New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2007.
Carey, Roane, ed. The New Intifada: Resisting Israel's Apartheid (Verso, 2001), ISBN 1-85984-377-8
Catignani, Sergio Israeli Counter-Insurgency and the two Intifadas: Dilemmas of a Conventional Army (London: Routledge, 2008), ISBN 978-0-415-43388-4.
Barzilai, Gad. Wars, Internal Conflicts, and Political Order: A Jewish Democracy in the Middle East.(New York University Press), ISBN 0-7914-29431.
Chomsky, Noam. The Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel and the Palestinians. Rev. ed. (South End Press, 1999), ISBN 0-89608-187-7.
Dershowitz, Alan. The Case for Peace: How the Arab-Israeli Conflict Can Be Resolved. Hoboken: John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 2005.
Dershowitz, Alan. The Case for Israel (John Wiley & Sons, 2004), ISBN 0-471-67952-6
Enderlin, Charles. Shattered Dreams: The Failure of the Peace Process in the Middle East, 1995-2002 (Other Press, 2003), ISBN 1-59051-060-7
Falk, Avner, Fratricide in the Holy Land: A Psychoanalytic View of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. University of Wisconsin Press, 2004, ISBN 0-299-20250-X
Finkelstein, Norman. Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict. 2nd ed. (Verso, 2003), ISBN 1-85984-442-1 2nd ed. introduction
Finkelstein, Norman. Beyond Chutzpah: On the Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History. (University of California Press, 2005), ISBN 0-520-24598-9.
Flapan, Simha. The Birth of Israel: Myth and Realities (Pantheon Books, 1987),[out of print]
Flapan, Simha. Zionism and the Palestinians (Croom Helm, 1979), [out of print]
Gold, Dore. The Fight for Jerusalem: Radical Islam, the West, and the Future of the Holy City. Washington, DC: Regnery Publishing, Inc., 2007.
Goldberg, Jeffrey. Prisoners: A Story of Friendship and Terror. New York: Vintage Books, 2006.
Green, Stephen. Taking Sides: America's Secret Relations with a Militant Israel (William Morrow and Co., Inc., 1984), [out of print]
Maniscalco, Fabio. Protection, conservation and valorisation of Palestinian Cultural Patrimony (Massa Publisher, 2005), ISBN 88-87835-62-4
Martin, Dom. COEXISTENCE: Humanity's Wailing Wall TransGalactic Publications, 2006, ISBN 0-9616078-8-2
Pappe, Ilan, ed. The Israel/Palestine Question (Routledge, 1999), ISBN 0-415-16948-8
Pearlman, Wendy. Occupied Voices: Stories of Everyday Life from the Second Intifada (Nation Books, 2003), ISBN 1-56025-530-7
Quandt, William B. Peace Process. 3rd ed. (Brookings Institution Press, 2005), ISBN 0-520-24631-4
Reinhart, Tanya. Israel/Palestine: How to End the War of 1948 (Seven Stories Press, 2002), ISBN 1-58322-538-2
Ross, Dennis. The Missing Peace: The Inside Story of the Fight for Middle East Peace (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2005), ISBN 0-374-19973-6
Safran, Nadav. The United States and Israel, ISBN 0-674-92490-8 [out of print]
Said, Edward W. The Question of Palestine (Vintage Books, 1992), ISBN 0-679-73988-2
Salinas, Moises. Planting Hatred, Sowing Pain: The Psychology of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (Greenwood-Praeger Publishers, 2007), ISBN 0-275-99005-2
Selby, Jan (2003). Water, Power and Politics in the Middle East: The Other Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. I.B.Tauris. ISBN 1860649343
Shipler, David K. Arab and Jew: Wounded Spirits in a Promised Land. Rev. ed. (Penguin Books, 2002), ISBN 0-14-200229-1
Swisher, Clayton E. The Truth About Camp David (Nation Books, 2004), ISBN 1-56025-623-0
Tilley, Virginia. The One-State Solution, (University of Michigan Press, May 24, 2005), ISBN 0472115138
Wasserstein, Bernard. Israelis and Palestinians. Why Do They Fight? Can They Stop?, (Yale University Press,New Haven, 2001)
Here's a bit of fiction for us too:
ReplyDeleteFiction
Abulhawa, Susan. Mornings in Jenin, (Bloomsbury Publishing, 2010), ISBN 9781608190461
Munich. Dir. Steven Spielberg. Perf. Eric Bana, Daniel Craig, Marie-Josée Croze, Ciarán Hinds. DreamWorks, 2005. DVD.
Uris, Leon. Exodus, (Doubleday & Company, 1958)
You Don't Mess with the Zohan. Dir. Dennis Dugan. Perf. Adam Sandler, John Turturro, Emmanuelle Chriqui, Nick Swardson. Sony Pictures, 2008. DVD
Anyhow, you can bet the world and all within it will be in my hopeful prayers tonight and I presume yours as well. Annapolis grad and nuclear physicist/gentleman farmer James Earl Carter Jr. says Israel never did hold up to their end of the bargain from the Camp David talks. You have done your best to vilify him but I still don't buy it.
ReplyDeleteRe: your exhaustive list: the books that conclude that the Jews had a right to set up a modern state on their ancient homeland are right, and the ones that conclude the opposite are wrong.
ReplyDeleteRe: Jimmy carter: He is almost universally recognized as a man who spent most of his life in moral confusion and in the last twenty years has become truly indoctrinated by evil forces.
Man, now that is evil hateful spiteful talk. It is by no means an exhaustive list, it's only the tip of the volcano. And, no he's not "almost universally" recognized as what you claim. Morally confused? Hrrmph to you of such certainty I say. Certaintly might be your bag, but don't force it on the rest of us. This is war now isn't it?
ReplyDelete\
ReplyDeleteThis Brit broad must be out of the universal loop that considers Carter morally confused and truly indoctrinated by evil forces.
In Britain we assumed that a politician that upright, that pure, could only be fictitious, and the expenses scandal has only reinforced that. But everything about Jimmy Carter's life – what he did as president, and what he's done since – has proved that "certain moral tone". And his home somehow encapsulates this. Inside, there's no hallway, just a patch of carpet separating a small dining room from a tiny sitting room. Then, all of a sudden, there's Jimmy.
Jimmy Carter approached his career with all the pragmatism of a practical man, and the deep-rooted morality of a religious one. American politics is increasingly dominated by what's called the religious right; conservatives who share an anti-scientific world view, who treat evolution as a heretical theory, and universal healthcare as dangerous socialism. But Carter was of the religious left, a very different beast. He has a profound faith, rooted in his Baptist upbringing. He and Rosalynn read the Bible to each other every night and have done so for "30-something years". (They read in Spanish, so that they can practise their language skills at the same time; they're relentless self-improvers.) "I read a chapter one night," says Rosalynn. "And he reads a chapter the next night."
From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/11/president-jimmy-carter-interview
He presided over double-digit inflation, exhorbitant interest rates, the Marxist takeovers of Nicaragua, Angola and Afghanistan, the radical Islamic takeover of Iran and the creation of useless cabinet-level departments.
ReplyDeleteSince then, he has conferred legitimacy on regimes such as those in North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela and Gaza. It's clear that at some point he developed a visceral bigotry against Jews.
His zeal for crafting an "Agreed Framework" with NK in 1994 is particularly loathesome.
ReplyDeleteBlessed are the peacemakers, somebody said, although you think it means peace through war.
ReplyDeleteHe takes pride that not one bomb was dropped, not one bullet was fired and that we never went to war. i presume you would have dropped bombs, fired bullets and gone to war with all the countries you mentioned that did not tow to your view of goodness or whatever you call it. I will certainly grant that inflation was out of control at the end of his administration which is really why he did not achieve reelection. Your beloved Ronnie allegedly was involved in some morally relativistic arms deals to your beloved contras. I don't see where any of these countries you mentioned has bothered us since, but please correct me if I am wrong. Terrorists don't count here. I'd join you if we could selectively kill them all. So, in the absence of that technology, we have to try to broker peace, not war. I realize that is a very dirty word to you unless it fits certain fine parameters. Peace is peace is peace. That is lasting peace. Beat the weapons into plowshares. What's wrong with that? To a hawk such as you this will perhaps be incomprehensible. Rally round your flag now (and that of those few countries still with us on our interminable wars) now wontcha?
ReplyDeleteThere are only two kinds of peace btween nation-states: one, in which one of them emerges victorious in an armed conflict and dictates the terms for the vanquished party's rehabilitation, and one in which a virtuous party surrenders to an expansionist tyrant so as to avoid any bullets flying or bombs dropping.
ReplyDeleteSuit yourself. It remains to be seen whether the preempters you were so fond of will regain control and force their will upon their countryman and the world populace. For now, they are all gone from any real power and I say good riddance. Don't know for sure how many voters in this country are with me on that. Your side has been bellyaching ever since they "left", I know, God do I know. Your mantras are spread over and over on at least the AM airwaves. Incessantly, the same shit, different day, over and over. Over and over. Keep chanting them. Over and over.
ReplyDeleteYou bet. In a world in the current state of ours, one can't proclaim the importance of freedom, prosperity, common sense and human dignity too often.
ReplyDeleteMethinks you tend to underplay the vicious insensibility and true tragedy of man's basic inhumanity to man that is called war but I won't bother you with quotes from great generals, presidents or citations from the historical works, including literaryand cinematic by individuals who have been there, done that throughout history. You can search for and/or read that trash at your leisure, perhaps during and following the next big one, should you survive. I know you are tough or at least think you are prepared to be so. Your intellect saved you from service in 'Nam I presume, because you may have made a great 2nd Lt, if not foot soldier. Perhaps you will get an opportunity to send your grandchildren off to some foreign land to fight for your interests and those who you support soon. Perhaps you can pin medals on them as they surely will return heroicly unscathed, dontcha think? Perhaps you can argue about reparations and protect the peace after you presumably get what you want internationally. Perhaps you can even move to Israel and be among your people, perhaps even converting. I wish you well my armchair warrior, because the pursuit of happiness is largely what it's all about. Keep reading from your bellicose conservative canons and gathering steam from your mouths roaring their toxic talk, knowing with certainty, sure that you are on God's side and He on yours. Go forth ye Goliath, for who could call you a mere David with all the firepower at your disposal? Go forth and bomb and frag the piss out of whatever populace you choose. Statecraft might as well be a 4 letter word to you. Blessed are the armchair warriors for they shall remain in heated and air conditioned comfort watching it all unfold with great glee! Blessed are they, the Prideful, those whose enemy is their own government as well. Blessed are the strategists, for they shall move humans around like pieces on a chessboard, then argue about the kill rate. They, they all shall reap the kingdom which they think will now be the way they want it because it's the way their God wants it. And for writing this I know that in return I will get from you at least strong inferences that I am weak, immature, unpatriotic, and probably even under the influence of sinister forces.
ReplyDeleteThere's no need to infer anything personal. I've merely been asking for several comments now just what entity Israel is supposed to "deal diplomatically' with?
ReplyDeleteYou negotiate with the legally elected or appointed leaders of Palestine, i.e., the entity applying for recognition in the UN. Let them deal with their own factions within. And, if they want to start something, well, obviously they better be able to finish it, right? But we are going to veto their application. So you want to bomb the piss out of them then? Methinks you're itching for them to start something.
ReplyDeleteThis insistence on the part of the PA with going ahead and - it's more than applying, really; it's a demand - seeking a UN vote on statehood pretty much precludes any negotiation. It's a direct violation of the Oslo Accords, which stipulate that any negotiating of issues such as border definition, status of Jerusalem, and what kinds of demographic groups can live where (jews in the new state or Muslim Arabs in Israel) must be done directly with Israel. Bibi said he has tried to get Abbas to arrange yet another round of talks for months, but the Palis insist on going this route.
ReplyDeleteThese are complex issues of international law. As always, there are two sides. You have been damning the UN for years, so obviously you have little faith or trust in it as a forum for peaceful negotiations v the known horrors and injustices of war where truth is the first casualty. There is no dearth of international lawyers involved. Since you have little regard for our State Department, even under President Bush, I understand your frustration and apparent eagerness to bomb the piss out of somebody (anybody Arabic/Muslim?). Well, as you continually carp, it's late in the day, in your view at least, with nowhere to turn but to the god of war. With your God in charge of the mission, right?
ReplyDeleteNot little faith in the UN. No faith.
ReplyDeleteWell, sorry, but our president can't say that. Yet. You know, I think most Americans are either bored or sick to death with this Arab-Israeli crap. Year after year, decade after decade the same old shit. Pretty hateful spiteful shit at that. I'd venture to say 9/11 and the global terrorist threat would never have occurred without US military aid and support to Israel. I personally have been fed up with it all for years. Apparently it gets your juices flowing. Enjoy.
ReplyDelete