Monday, February 5, 2018

Wall Street's gyrations occur in a larger context

My buddy Justin Hohn does a great job of explaining that stock-market ups and downs are just one piece of the economic picture:

As of this writing, the stock market continues the slide it began last week with the largest drop since the Great Recession. Positive economic news abounds, so what gives?
Don't let the President's comments mislead you: the stock market is not the economy. To the contrary, I've argued that at times a high stock market results from a weak overall economy. The Obama Administration illustrated very well this dichotomy: The Dow was just under 8000 points when Obama took office, and when Trump took office, it was nearly 19,900. Over an 8 year period, that's a return of over 12% per year for 8 years in a row. Yet, the real economy-- the American GDP-- grew at a much lower 3.8% nominal value. And that's NOMINAL, so that reflects the typical 1.5%-2% inflation as well. Thus, real economic growth was likely only about 2% per year (on average).
Other contradictions between the real economy and the stock market are readily observed. For example, rising interest rates usually point to improving economic conditions as the economy makes its own money and creates inflationary pressure. Rising home prices, rising fuel prices, etc are evidence of rising demand, increasing spending, and a generally more optimistic view of the economy.
Yet we know that Wall St responds very negatively to a rise in interest rates. Indeed, it's likely that this negative response explains much of the recent tumble in the markets; they are afraid that the Fed will raise interest rates.
Why do they care so much about rising interest rates, even when it means the overall economy is improving?
Recall with me that all loans are denominated in nominal dollars. Inflation reduces the value of those dollars over time. So lenders charge an interest rate partially to protect against that loss of value from inflation. But what happens if the actual interest rates go far above what was used to secure a debt instrument? The lender can actually lose buying power. If I borrow money at 2% interest and inflation goes up to 4%, the lender is actually losing money through inflation.

The vast majority of Wall St profits have to do with finance, and Wall St banks are on the lending side of the transaction. So what harms them is a windfall to the borrower and vice versa.
Meanwhile, main street businesses in your locality benefit from increasing consumer confidence and the spending boom that is driving higher interest rates.
The upshot here: not only is our economy much more than just Wall St., there are times when a declining stock market can be evidence of real economic growth, just as there are times when a high stock market is driven by a stagnant economy that has nowhere else in which to place investment capital.
As the poet William Carlos Williams said, truth lies in particulars.

14 comments:

  1. Your beloved Ted Cruz wants to allow us the freedom and great privilege of managing our own retirement funding and most of this, when done, is done via the stock market. So what say your ilk to market meltdowns as they affect the retired or near-so who don't have the luxury of time to wait for a recovery in that topsy turvy casino environment?

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  2. The key is to have a diversified fund that includes some steady-as-she-goes, low-risk stocks, a more aggressive fund that is for faster growth, and some in between. A good advisor with a heart of stewardship will put together a plan based on a person's particular situation.

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  4. Sure the economy is much more than Wall Street, but for retirees and those saving for retirement its pretty vital now that pensions have largely become a thing of the past and Republicans are even attacking social security again. Initial blame is being placed on the President for squeezing the Republicans (many of whom detest him to) to hurriedly ram the tax cuts up the American people without a single Democratic vote or even including Democrats in their committee meetings. Though the man you detest too but whose policies you're all on board with because they fit with your principles or something stood before the American people a bare week ago and included this in the third longest SOTU speech (and by far the longest bragfest: “The stock market has smashed one record after another, gaining $8 trillion in value. That is great news for Americans’ 401(k), retirement, pension and college savings accounts."

    Dow futures point to another 1000 point drop today. You fuckers are out of here! 2 meltdowns in a row now from your ilk. Judging from the last one, you'll be blaming the Dems on this one too. Probably the next war(s) you're getting us into too.

    "Sometimes you can have too much of a good thing. Don’t forget what set off the plunge on Friday: better-than-expected job growth numbers. It is very possible that by the time election season comes around for 2020, even if this market dip is simply a blip, the economy will be, or will have been, in a recession. To explain the phenomenon, Ray Dalio, the founder of the largest hedge fund in the world, Bridgewater Associates, imagined the president at the wheel of car. “Fiscal stimulation is hitting the gas, which is driving the economy forward into the capacity constraints,” Mr. Dalio said. That, he added, “is triggering interest rate increases that are hitting the brakes, first in the markets and later in the economy.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/business/dealbook/trump-markets-stimulus.html

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  5. Now cry us another river about how Cruz was your man.

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  6. 1.) Donald Trump was a fool to use the stock market as a bragging point.
    2.) Why are you deliberately ignoring what I said about enlisting an advisor with a heart of stewardship to design a plan tailored to a person's specific needs and wants?
    3.) Republicans aren't "attacking" social security. They are merely pointing out that it will go broke without major changes to the way it's structured.
    4.) Yup, a lot of DJT's policies fit my principles.

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  7. 2) I'm not deliberately ignoring this obvious if not pathetic pablum. I have a 401k too you
    know. .Sounds like a spot for Wells Fargo Imvestment Advisors. Too obvious to dwell on. These stewards have been everywhere 401K and IRA gravy money is to be found and are mostly hired guns,despite former laws your ilk's endeavoring to retrench requiring them to act as fiduciaries with our money,

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  8. Why is it pathetic? Are you saying it makes no difference whether your investment advisor takes a keen in your individual situation and in helping you achieve your financial goals or doesn’t give a shit about you?

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  9. It's pathetic that they take a cut of your hard earned savings and the annals are rife with rip offs and bad advice. Look, there was a reason our democracy chose the social insurance route for old age and survivor's coverage. And that reason has not gone away yet. I think you'll find that the majority of the public views their investment advisers like lawyers, everybody is suspicious of any lawyer but their own is the absolute best that ever hung out a shingle. The financial services sector overall has quite a poor public image.

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  10. None of what you say answers my question. I didn’t ask about “social insurance” or how the majority of the public views their investment advisors.

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  11. I said I have a 401k too and have dealt with investment advisors for over 30 years. What was your question again, kind sir, of it was not why I'm deliberately ignorant? Because it should go without saying that I'm not.

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  12. Here it is, worded exactly as above: Are you saying it makes no difference whether your investment advisor takes a keen in your individual situation and in helping you achieve your financial goals or doesn’t give a shit about you?

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  13. What do you think. Anyhow just be grateful I'm leaving you alone in the 3 threads started since, OK? If you get lucky I'll leave you alone for life.

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  14. I don't mind at all. I'm always up for a bracing exchange, as long as it's linear.

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